No clever verbal ploys, no sophistry, no Thomistic hair-splitting, no Double Standard, no cheating. Just the sorts of observations and considerations that move any reasonable person to strongly suspect that there is no God. The sort of things that really make it seem--in your bones, in your gut--that there must be no God. Let's put our best cards on the table and have a good look at them.

For purposes of this page, let's pick a reasonably broad-minded interpretation of God. We just mean some sort of consciousness that is intelligent and cares about us, which has set up the world and is running it, in some way, for our benefit--somehow making things work out in a way that would be impossible if the world were just a bunch of mindless atoms bouncing around without intelligent, benevolent direction.

Is easily explained by the impartial laws of Physics, neither benevolent nor mindful. Now, where did those laws come from? Chaos theory demonstrates than any sequential process with randomized parameters, from the dripping of a tap to the swirling of a monsoon, is attracted by some orderly principle. The laws of physics are no more than such attractors at work in a chaotic reality - neither more universal nor more important than the pattern of the dripping tap. That they happen to pertain here, and that writhing unpredictable nonsense does not, is due entirely to the Anthropic Principle.

Shouldnt you address first the existence question: "Why Is There Anything At All?"?

Yes I should, and I did. Go grok What's A Distinction.

For the continuation of this discussion see Why Is There Anything At All. -- Michael John Downes

Appears to us because of the nature of our evolution. Flies find dogshit beautiful. A non-human intelligence might find the beauty we see around us utterly revolting. An intelligence based on the Cyano Bacteria, for example, will find our atmosphere toxic, our foods inedible, and our pleasures inscrutable.

We've all had experiences in which what seems to be a wonderful thing leads ultimately to a terrible result. Thus it seems that no God was looking out for us, and that any meaning we inferred from it all would be too appalling to consider the work of an intelligence.

A commonplace sort of example is a mother loses a son to a drunk driver, then starts a political organization that cracks down on drunk driving, ultimately saving thousands of lives, but among those lives is a totalitarian whose doctrines slay millions of innocents. Without the son's death, the totalitarian would never have caused all that suffering. For more along these lines try riding Chuang Tse's Horse.

When things work out for the worst in astounding ways (see above), it may at first imply that there is no God, but then reflecting on the impact that these observations make, we might be inclined to backpeddle and surmize that there is a God whose plan for us includes astounding puzzles, all part of the game.

By contrast, when things work out for the worst in trivial ways, this second response is missing, and hence these are the more compelling experiences. For example, all tangled on the floor before me are an orange extension cord and two black electrical cords, each going to a power tool. I follow the cord from the tool I want to use, find its plug, plug it in and commece to use the tool. The tool doesn't work because it's not plugged in, because in my haste I got the cords confused. But I've spent the honest effort to plug in the right cord, and nobody benefits from the wrong cord being plugged. Surely if there was an all-knowing, all-powerful God, the least he could do is fix little boo-boos like that without troubling me further.

Ah yes, the little boo-boos. Why don't we create a little Why Hymn about those, one which doesn't quite manage to scan or rhyme or indeed come to a conclusion about who may have created it?

Any universe where nothing could go wrong would be uninteresting. (Think about it.) Any universe where only physical accidents could happen but no conscious being was capable of intentionally harming another (no free will, in other words) could be marginally interesting to an observer perhaps, but I think not to any of the denizens. If you accept those premises then it is easy to surmise that if God gives you plenty of minor annoyances it means he wants to see you grow into a strong person, able to deal with possibly major trouble that other people might attempt to inflict on you.

Not that he would have to pay much attention most of the time, since it seems part of his design was to build into the universe lots of automatic problem-generators that would run unattended.

Oh, you have children too?

Lack of sufficient evidence

Doesn't suggest there is no God. Doesn't suggest anything at all.

In and of itself, agreed. But, in response to a "consciousness that is intelligent and cares about us, which has set up the world and is running it, in some way, for our benefit--somehow making things work out in a way that would be impossible if the world were just a bunch of mindless atoms bouncing around without intelligent, benevolent direction", lack of evidence certainly makes it seem (title) that the statement is made about a wish instead of about the world.

Well this reason is dumb. Obviously to me, I'm the most important thing no matter how large the scope of the universe is...

Think again, kemosabe. Men die for their own causes. Men die in the defence of their loved ones. Men die because they find the universe less important than their peace of mind.

Moreover, humility is possible in men. Yes, even in such men as yourself.

I believe Mr. Yip was being facetious, not sure. All the above reasons are from inside 'man' to out. 'Not that important' could mean that the universe is a very, very big place with many, many sentient creatures and cultures and that a god creating it just for our benefit and amusement would be slightly egocentric. Hence, we're not important enough in the scope of things to create all those other beings, lives, happinesses and pains (completely, for now, unknown to us), just so we could exist.

Yes I was being facetious. The point above still implies that there is a "god", though perhaps not one that exists soley for us humans.